For MINOR , apply for PIO or OCI card?

[ajainy]

I started filling OCI card application for my 1yr old son. But I stumbled upon this rule:
=-=
OCI is entitled to a life long visa-free travel to India whereas for the PIO cardholder, it is limited to 15 years. However, anyone outside the age group of 21 and 50 years, they need to get new OCI every time they get a new passport.
-=-=-
In USA, minor passport is 6 yrs (i think). Looks like even though OCI is lifelong but till my son turns 21, I will have to keep on applying new OCI (and notorious paper work) again and again.
But in case of PIO card, he will only have to carry old passport.

Cost of LIFE OCI is $283
Cost of 15yr PIO is $193
Cost of 10yr VISA = $158

Cost is not big deal, given it's not major difference. But spending almost one day, preparing for paperwork seems to be big pain. (And dealing with indian consulate).

Now I am thinking, I should just get PIO card and think about OCI or not later in life.

What you guys think? Anything I am missing here?

[immihelp]

Don't get OCI for kids as it is valid only for 5 years. Every time there is a new passport, you will have to do the entire process all over again.

Go for PIO card instead.

[nisdesai]

US Born Baby to Indian Citizen Parents

Hello,

I am in USA on H1 visa and my wife is here with me on H4 visa. We both are Indian citizen an hold valid Indian passports and valid Visa for USA. We are expecting our baby to born here in USA. We will return back to India in 1-2 yrs and do not have plans to settle down in USA. We went through different forums and articles on internet on pros & cons of having baby born to an Indian parents in USA. We are very confused about citizenship of our baby.

I kindly request you to take your time and guide me on below listed questions.

(1) Will child get USA citizenship by virtue of having born here?
(2) Will he/she be eligible to get Indian Citizenship as well? If yes, how can we proceed to get Indian citizenship for our baby at/after his/her birth in USA?

If we consider to get US passport for our baby and get PIO for him/her to travel to India,
(1) Will he/she be considered as non-citizen of India and what will he be able to get equal opportunity as an Indian citizen for education in schools/colleges, employment, opening bank account, applying PAN card etc? Or he/she will treated in different category for all this rights?
(2) I understood that PIO is valid for 15 years. Can it be renewed after 15 years in India itself? Can baby travel frequently to and from India with PIO card?
(3) Can my child have right to decide on which citizenship he/she wants once turn to 18years age? Can he/she surrender US passport at US consulate in India and apply for Indian passport, thus accepting Indian citizenship and renouncing US citizenship? (4) Assuming that my child will accept Indian Citizenship and renounce US citizenship at age of 18yrs, do I need to get his/her birth registered at Indian Consulate in USA after his/her birth? I have read few articles which says that if Indian parents want to register birth of their USA born child at Indian consulate in USA, they have to do so within one year of birth. Is it true?
(5) Assuming that I am registering birth of my child at Indian consulate in USA within definite time line,
--> by doing so, Am I directly/indirectly applying for Indian citizenship for my kid and I have to get Indian passport for my child?
--> Or even after registering birth at Indian Consulate in USA, Can I still apply for USA passport/SSN (thus confirming US citizenship for my child)? and birth registration document may prove helpful to my child in case he/she decide to accept Indian Citizenship and renounce USA citizenship at age of 18 yrs?

If we consider to get birth registered at Indian Consulate/Embassy in USA and get Indian passport
(1) Will baby gain Indian citizenship by registering birth at Indian Consulate and getting Indian passport? Will baby still be considered as USA citizen and is there any need that we need to get Visa for baby for stay in USA?
(2) Will we face any problem at any airport in the world to travel back to India with baby on his Indian Passport?
(3) I read on Internet that, in this case if kid needs to come back to USA in future with Indian Passport, US consulate in India will not give visa to my child as it will be US born. In this case it is impossible to travel to US in future.Can you please throw some light on this scenario? What could be best mitigation for this?

We want to know
(1) if we can apply for OCI for our child or not
If yes, (1) What is the validity of OCI card?
(2) Can child travel between USA and India frequently in future without any extra visa requirement for both countries?
(3) Can child stay in India for long time (at least till OCI is valid) or he/she needs to return to USA after some time?
(4) Can OCI be renewed in India in future?

OR

(1) if we can apply for PIO for our child or not
If yes, (1) What is the validity of POI?
(2) Can child travel between USA and India frequently in future without any extra visa requirement for both countries?
(3) Can child stay in India for long time (at least till PIO is valid) or he/she needs to return to USA after some time?
(4) Can PIO be renewed in India in future?

Please guide us. Your guidance/sharing experience will be highly appreciated.

Thanks a lot.

Regards,
NKD

[kool_maverik]

Don't get OCI for kids as it is valid only for 5 years. Every time there is a new passport, you will have to do the entire process all over again.

Go for PIO card instead.

That is not strictly true. It is advised to renew the OCI when you get a new passport, but it is not mandatory. As long as you carry the old passport with the U visa sticker when you travel to India, you should be ok. From the GOI OCI website:
"OCI card holders traveling to India are advised to carry the Passport containing U Visa sticker and OCI Card to avoid problems at Immigration check points in India. In case registered OCI has obtained a new passport, kindly ensure to carry the passport containing U Visa sticker, new passport and OCI document during all visits to India.".

[immihelp]

That was true earlier. It is no longer true.

Outside the range of 21-50 years, you need new OCI every time you get new passport. It is absolutely mandatory. There have been major protests in recent times about this and there has been a lot of news coverage over the last year about this unnecessary and needless requirement.

As GOI has outsourced the work to private contractors for the past few years, they have not been maintaining the up to date information on their own web site, which is unfortunate and misleading, if what you wrote is still there on their web site.

If you still don't believe us, you will be traveling to India at your own risk and you may be refused entry into India.

[inthemoment]

Need to clear a lot of misconceptions about the OCI re-issue outside of the less than 20 and over 50 years rule.

For a child under 20, the OCI has to be re-issued with a miscellaneous form. It is not the whole process all over again. The fees are only $32.70 and the documentation required is much less.

Secondly, if the US requires a passport re-issue every five years for under 16, why the cribbing about the OCI re-issue ? The physical profile changes a lot under 20 and the OCI card has to be re-issued with the new photo. Why, even the Green Card has to be renewed every 10 years.

Looks like people do not care to inform themselves or think squarely.

[kool_maverik]

Good point, but the key difference between the US passport renewal and the OCI renewal is that for US PP renewal, one does not have to deal with BLS. That's where the rub is!!

If you are living in India, another thing to consider is that the OCI re-issue is only required for a new passport if you intend to travel internationally. If you do not have any plans for the kids to travel outside the country, in my opinion the original OCI is good enough for maintaining legal status within the country.

Need to clear a lot of misconceptions about the OCI re-issue outside of the less than 20 and over 50 years rule.

For a child under 20, the OCI has to be re-issued with a miscellaneous form. It is not the whole process all over again. The fees are only $32.70 and the documentation required is much less.

Secondly, if the US requires a passport re-issue every five years for under 16, why the cribbing about the OCI re-issue ? The physical profile changes a lot under 20 and the OCI card has to be re-issued with the new photo. Why, even the Green Card has to be renewed every 10 years.

Looks like people do not care to inform themselves or think squarely.

[mail2suman]

OCI+Renunciation for Family

Hi

My wife and I got naturalized 3 months back and got our US passports last month. We have not surrendered our Indian passport yet. We have 2 minor children. Our long term plan (2 years from now) is to go back to India.

Older daughter (9 yrs of age now) was born in India, she has her green card and Indian passport. She became a Citizen as a result of our naturalization. We have been unable to apply for her US passport yet since her India issued birth certificate doesn't have her name. My wife plans to travel to India to get this addressed this summer.

Younger daughter (6 years of age now) was born in the USA. She holds a US passport (valid until 2017) as well as a PIO card (valid until 2024).

Now we are planning to apply for OCI as well as renunciation. And we have the following questions:

1. Does it make sense to apply OCI for our younger daughter as well? Or should we just leave her as a PIO holder and apply OCI for the rest 3 of us? Are there any implications to leaver her out in the OCI application?

2. Can my older daughter travel to India *and* come back to USA with her green card and India passport (just in case there is a need for her to travel until we are able to apply and get her US passport)?

Thanks much.

[rajkakarla]

That was true earlier. It is no longer true.

Outside the range of 21-50 years, you need new OCI every time you get new passport. It is absolutely mandatory. There have been major protests in recent times about this and there has been a lot of news coverage over the last year about this unnecessary and needless requirement.

As GOI has outsourced the work to private contractors for the past few years, they have not been maintaining the up to date information on their own web site, which is unfortunate and misleading, if what you wrote is still there on their web site.

If you still don't believe us, you will be traveling to India at your own risk and you may be refused entry into India.

GOI website has these instructions for the OCI card holders, doesn't say anything about age, even though all the embassy websites say all minors must get new OCI documents with passport renewal. My friends recently went without new documents and they were not stopped. IMO, this requirement is not strictly enforced.

[New_Applicant]

As already mentioned that the requirement is not strictly enforced, however if there is some mishap upon port of entry in India due to this confusion the family would suffer a lot. I have posted here a link from Embassy of India, Washington which clearly mentions that OCI card has to be re-issued on passport change for a minor below 20 years of age and adults above 50 years of age.
[Do not understand the rationale of Indian government behind keeping this rule?]

https://www.indianembassy.org/pages.php?id=20

Fo rmyself, I have decided to apply PIO for my 3 months old daughter and when she turns 20 will convert it to OCI( unless the rule changes).

[immihelp]

Even though the fees are less for reissue of OCI, the effort and the amount of documents required are pretty much the same. It asks for at least the 90% of the documents again that it asked originally. That is totally absurd. Why should they ask for the same document they asked earlier?

They should just ask for the old OCI, old passport, new passport, a form and a fee. But look at the list of documents. https:///oci-card/oci-miscellaneous-...documents.html It is pretty much the same as initial issue.

OCI is supposed to have lifetime validity but they keep asking to get reissued again and again.

Greencard is to be reissued every 10 years because it is valid only for 10 years. But in that case, you don't have to go through all the hassles. You just fill one form and pay the fee and that's it. Passport has to be reissued every 5/10 years but again the process is simple. However, that is not the case for OCI reissue.

Therefore, for kids, never go for OCI, as it is good for 5 years. No matter what the justification is, OCI for kids is only good for 5 years. Therefore, always go for PIO card which is good for 15 years, no matter how anyone justifies any other way.

[dananth1]

How long can I use Indian passport after becoming US Citizen

I recently became a US citizen. I expect 2 weeks for expedited passport processing. I booked travel to India within 5 weeks. I plan to stay for 6 weeks thereafter. I don't want to risk applying for PIO/Renunciation with BLS not knowing when it will be processed. Can I still use Indian passport for entry into India and use US passport to come back to US? After which I plan to process PIO card. I saw this information in BLS site.

"Renunciation Certificate is not required for traveling to India, however, once a person acquires citizenship of another country, it is obligatory to surrender Indian citizenship and Indian passport should not be used for travel 3 months beyond the date of acquisition of citizenship. If the Indian passport is retained for more than 3 years after acquisition of citizenship of another country, a penalty of $250.00 will be charged except where the Indian passport expired before January 1, 2005. In addition, a penalty of $250.00 will be charged for each case of misuse of the Indian passport for travel after 3 months of acquisition of citizenship of another country subject to a maximum penalty of $1250.00.
"

[[email protected]]

Can i call to discuss pls

I nis, can i pls call you to discuss, my issue is as yours and its easier to discuss.

Hello,

I am in USA on H1 visa and my wife is here with me on H4 visa. We both are Indian citizen an hold valid Indian passports and valid Visa for USA. We are expecting our baby to born here in USA. We will return back to India in 1-2 yrs and do not have plans to settle down in USA. We went through different forums and articles on internet on pros & cons of having baby born to an Indian parents in USA. We are very confused about citizenship of our baby.

I kindly request you to take your time and guide me on below listed questions.

(1) Will child get USA citizenship by virtue of having born here?
(2) Will he/she be eligible to get Indian Citizenship as well? If yes, how can we proceed to get Indian citizenship for our baby at/after his/her birth in USA?

If we consider to get US passport for our baby and get PIO for him/her to travel to India,
(1) Will he/she be considered as non-citizen of India and what will he be able to get equal opportunity as an Indian citizen for education in schools/colleges, employment, opening bank account, applying PAN card etc? Or he/she will treated in different category for all this rights?
(2) I understood that PIO is valid for 15 years. Can it be renewed after 15 years in India itself? Can baby travel frequently to and from India with PIO card?
(3) Can my child have right to decide on which citizenship he/she wants once turn to 18years age? Can he/she surrender US passport at US consulate in India and apply for Indian passport, thus accepting Indian citizenship and renouncing US citizenship? (4) Assuming that my child will accept Indian Citizenship and renounce US citizenship at age of 18yrs, do I need to get his/her birth registered at Indian Consulate in USA after his/her birth? I have read few articles which says that if Indian parents want to register birth of their USA born child at Indian consulate in USA, they have to do so within one year of birth. Is it true?
(5) Assuming that I am registering birth of my child at Indian consulate in USA within definite time line,
--> by doing so, Am I directly/indirectly applying for Indian citizenship for my kid and I have to get Indian passport for my child?
--> Or even after registering birth at Indian Consulate in USA, Can I still apply for USA passport/SSN (thus confirming US citizenship for my child)? and birth registration document may prove helpful to my child in case he/she decide to accept Indian Citizenship and renounce USA citizenship at age of 18 yrs?

If we consider to get birth registered at Indian Consulate/Embassy in USA and get Indian passport
(1) Will baby gain Indian citizenship by registering birth at Indian Consulate and getting Indian passport? Will baby still be considered as USA citizen and is there any need that we need to get Visa for baby for stay in USA?
(2) Will we face any problem at any airport in the world to travel back to India with baby on his Indian Passport?
(3) I read on Internet that, in this case if kid needs to come back to USA in future with Indian Passport, US consulate in India will not give visa to my child as it will be US born. In this case it is impossible to travel to US in future.Can you please throw some light on this scenario? What could be best mitigation for this?

We want to know
(1) if we can apply for OCI for our child or not
If yes, (1) What is the validity of OCI card?
(2) Can child travel between USA and India frequently in future without any extra visa requirement for both countries?
(3) Can child stay in India for long time (at least till OCI is valid) or he/she needs to return to USA after some time?
(4) Can OCI be renewed in India in future?

OR

(1) if we can apply for PIO for our child or not
If yes, (1) What is the validity of POI?
(2) Can child travel between USA and India frequently in future without any extra visa requirement for both countries?
(3) Can child stay in India for long time (at least till PIO is valid) or he/she needs to return to USA after some time?
(4) Can PIO be renewed in India in future?

Please guide us. Your guidance/sharing experience will be highly appreciated.

Thanks a lot.

Regards,
NKD

[dr2mandic]

OCI for minor conditions

I was born in India, but left when I was 12. I have 2 nationalities, NZ and US and currently have Indian PIO card. My partner (not wife) is a US citizen, but she is EU born non-Indian. My daughter is US born and I would like to apply for her OCI.

1. I do have my old Indian passport
2. My partner and I are not married, but been together for over 10 years

Is my daughter eligible to apply for OCI, please advise.

[proonindiandoc]

Even though the fees are less for reissue of OCI, the effort and the amount of documents required are pretty much the same. It asks for at least the 90% of the documents again that it asked originally. That is totally absurd. Why should they ask for the same document they asked earlier?

They should just ask for the old OCI, old passport, new passport, a form and a fee. But look at the list of documents. https:///oci-card/oci-miscellaneous-...documents.html It is pretty much the same as initial issue.

OCI is supposed to have lifetime validity but they keep asking to get reissued again and again.

Greencard is to be reissued every 10 years because it is valid only for 10 years. But in that case, you don't have to go through all the hassles. You just fill one form and pay the fee and that's it. Passport has to be reissued every 5/10 years but again the process is simple. However, that is not the case for OCI reissue.

Therefore, for kids, never go for OCI, as it is good for 5 years. No matter what the justification is, OCI for kids is only good for 5 years. Therefore, always go for PIO card which is good for 15 years, no matter how anyone justifies any other way.

any questions? hire me for consultant

- - - Updated - - -

I recently became a US citizen. I expect 2 weeks for expedited passport processing. I booked travel to India within 5 weeks. I plan to stay for 6 weeks thereafter. I don't want to risk applying for PIO/Renunciation with BLS not knowing when it will be processed. Can I still use Indian passport for entry into India and use US passport to come back to US? After which I plan to process PIO card. I saw this information in BLS site.

"Renunciation Certificate is not required for traveling to India, however, once a person acquires citizenship of another country, it is obligatory to surrender Indian citizenship and Indian passport should not be used for travel 3 months beyond the date of acquisition of citizenship. If the Indian passport is retained for more than 3 years after acquisition of citizenship of another country, a penalty of $250.00 will be charged except where the Indian passport expired before January 1, 2005. In addition, a penalty of $250.00 will be charged for each case of misuse of the Indian passport for travel after 3 months of acquisition of citizenship of another country subject to a maximum penalty of $1250.00.
"

answer is NONE. as soon as you naturalized, must renunce Indian citizenship with your latest Indian passport.

- - - Updated - - -

I was born in India, but left when I was 12. I have 2 nationalities, NZ and US and currently have Indian PIO card. My partner (not wife) is a US citizen, but she is EU born non-Indian. My daughter is US born and I would like to apply for her OCI.

1. I do have my old Indian passport
2. My partner and I are not married, but been together for over 10 years

Is my daughter eligible to apply for OCI, please advise.

one of requirements for minor is marriage certificate from parent. so get married and apply her oci