Document requirement for OCI in lieu of PIO for minor

[Des Pardes]

Hi all,

It appears to me document requirement for OCI in lieu of PIO for minor is excessive.

The fact that applicant (minor) is of Indian origin is already established and documentation was already submitted for PIO.

Then why do they need following:

1. Parents marriage certificate
2. Parents passport and OCI Cards
   Heading of item 7 in check list says "Passport OR OCI card". But in list it states "if parents have OCI cards, it is mandatory to provide copies of OCI cards as well"
3. Birth certificate (of applicant)
4. Parents proof of renunciation
   If parents already have OCI card then why is this needed?
5. Proof of address
   Utility bills are most likely going to be under one parent only

Also, why San Francisco doesn't need any original documents but all other offices do? For proof of address lease is acceptable only for Atlanta, Houston and New York. I can't believe there is no consistency at least for one country (US).

Thanks

[proonindiandoc]

Hi all,

It appears to me document requirement for OCI in lieu of PIO for minor is excessive.

The fact that applicant (minor) is of Indian origin is already established and documentation was already submitted for PIO.

Then why do they need following:

1. Parents marriage certificate
2. Parents passport and OCI Cards
   Heading of item 7 in check list says "Passport OR OCI card". But in list it states "if parents have OCI cards, it is mandatory to provide copies of OCI cards as well"
3. Birth certificate (of applicant)
4. Parents proof of renunciation
   If parents already have OCI card then why is this needed?
5. Proof of address
   Utility bills are most likely going to be under one parent only

Also, why San Francisco doesn't need any original documents but all other offices do? For proof of address lease is acceptable only for Atlanta, Houston and New York. I can't believe there is no consistency at least for one country (US).

Thanks

NO, if applicant is former Indian citizen, or parents/ grandparents is Indian origin, the only documents required are:
1. application
2. additional particulars form for OCI
3. (minor) oci parental authorization for minor with notary
4. current passport copy
5. birth certificate or naturalization certificate, is not necessary, has it will take it, will not be rejected for reason
6. PIO card 1st and last page copy
7. proof of address copy.

that is all.

if applicant is trying to apply base on indian spouse, first I would say, just apply for VISA, OCI will not grant for foreign spouse. if you insist to apply you have to follow the foreign spouse apply New OCI, instead of regular easy in lieu of PIO card.

[Des Pardes]

Thanks for reply.

Applicant is NOT former Indian citizen. He's born in US when parents were Indian citizens.

But his Indian origin is already established when PIO card was issued.

Why now all the additional documentation of PARENTS is required?

Note that if applicant is not minor then nothing about parents is required.

[sunrag1]

Hi all,

It appears to me document requirement for OCI in lieu of PIO for minor is excessive.

The fact that applicant (minor) is of Indian origin is already established and documentation was already submitted for PIO.

Then why do they need following:

1. Parents marriage certificate
2. Parents passport and OCI Cards
   Heading of item 7 in check list says "Passport OR OCI card". But in list it states "if parents have OCI cards, it is mandatory to provide copies of OCI cards as well"
3. Birth certificate (of applicant)
4. Parents proof of renunciation
   If parents already have OCI card then why is this needed?
5. Proof of address
   Utility bills are most likely going to be under one parent only

Also, why San Francisco doesn't need any original documents but all other offices do? For proof of address lease is acceptable only for Atlanta, Houston and New York. I can't believe there is no consistency at least for one country (US).

Thanks

Based WSJ site, seems like Indian govt does not have details of how many PIOs issued so far.. Thats why they are asking all details.. even though it shows "Oci in lieu of PIO".. Our existing PIO is not a valid document.. Unfortunately, we have no option but to apply for OCI and go thru mental pressure....

[Des Pardes]

Based WSJ site, seems like Indian govt does not have details of how many PIOs issued so far.. Thats why they are asking all details.. even though it shows "Oci in lieu of PIO".. Our existing PIO is not a valid document.. Unfortunately, we have no option but to apply for OCI and go thru mental pressure....

Thanks for reply. I wonder why this doesn't apply to adult PIO card holders.

BTW, PIO card is valid document. This is from indiacgny.org:

In terms of the notification issued by the Ministry of Home Affairs on 9th January 2015, all the existing PIO Cardholders as on 9 January 2015 shall be deemed to be OCI Cardholders. However, all persons having valid PIO cards as on 9th January 2015 are advised to apply for registration as OCI Cardholder in view of the following advantages in processing as OCI card:
(a) OCI card is a smart card;
(b) Possession of an OCI card will facilitate quicker immigration clearance at the Immigration Check Posts;
(c) It will help in obtaining various Consular Services from the Indian Missions;
(d) For those who are resident in India, it will facilitate in availing various services in India.
The date for submission of applications for registration as OCI cardholder in lieu of PIO card online has been extended till 30 June 2016.

[sunrag1]

Thanks for reply. I wonder why this doesn't apply to adult PIO card holders.

BTW, PIO card is valid document. This is from indiacgny.org:

I meant to say.. post June 2016, it wont be valid unless u have applied for conversion.. If you dont have conversion applied receipt, you cant use PIO to travel. Thats what various website say.

Ex: So if parents (Indian citizens) returning back to India from US with their US born kids (less than 15 years) having PIO cards, will kids be deported back to US?. With whom they will go back to US? .

[Des Pardes]

I meant to say.. post June 2016, it wont be valid unless u have applied for conversion..

That makes me uncomfortable.

Atlanta consulate (http://indianconsulateatlanta.org/page/display/13), Houston consulate (http://www.cgihouston.org/news/display/108) state following

The Government of India has published in the Gazette of India (Part-I, Section-I) on 30 September 2014, that a PIO card issued to an applicant shall be valid for his/her lifetime, provided such applicant has a valid Passport.

SanFran consulate has similar but little intimidating text.

All of them advise to convert to OCI but none explicitly says PIO card is not valid.

We have same central government since May 2014 yet there is so much confusion. Rules keep changing so I'm not even sure above links I mentioned are not superseded by some other GR. One of the consulates links even states that all PIO card holders were notified which is not the case.

Even in my own case, I had a 20 year valid passport issued in 1998. Someone decided that those passports are not valid past November 2015. I didn't get the memo. Luckily for me I had to apply for Schengen visa in July 2015 and Dutch consulate told me about it. I missed my overseas business trip.

[ctdesi]

For OCI it's the same issue

For all having to convert PIO to OCI - I feel your pain. I totally agree with the sentiments here. And, just to tell you the bad news, it does not get easier after you get the OCI. Because for a child under 16, you have to apply for OCI match up with new passport every time your child gets a new passport, which is every 5 years. And believe it or not, you have to send ALL the documents (even originals such as your passports and OCI cards), get them notarized, self attested and all the shitty things AGAIN !! So don't think once you get the OCI you are off the hook, because you will have to go through the pain again after 5 years. I am telling you this because I know from personal experience having just applied for matchup for my two sons.

This is one messed up process, I can tell you. Not only does it involve a ton of paperwork and getting things notarized, on top having to send your valuable document like passport (including yours and kids) cause lot of anxiety and has potential of misplacing originals. What a nightmare!! It is so true when they say common sense is not common. For Indian govt. babus this is so true.

All this makes me realize that applying for OCI for kids makes no sense. Just get the visa until they are 16, and then apply for OCI. Visa is valid for 10 years and you can take old passport with visa and new passport. OCI is supposed to be for life but for kids under 16 you basically reapply every 5 years.

We should write to PMO office as a start. Here is the url - http://pmindia.gov.in/en/interact-with-honble-pm/

[proonindiandoc]

For all having to convert PIO to OCI - I feel your pain. I totally agree with the sentiments here. And, just to tell you the bad news, it does not get easier after you get the OCI. Because for a child under 16, you have to apply for OCI match up with new passport every time your child gets a new passport, which is every 5 years. And believe it or not, you have to send ALL the documents (even originals such as your passports and OCI cards), get them notarized, self attested and all the shitty things AGAIN !! So don't think once you get the OCI you are off the hook, because you will have to go through the pain again after 5 years. I am telling you this because I know from personal experience having just applied for matchup for my two sons.

This is one messed up process, I can tell you. Not only does it involve a ton of paperwork and getting things notarized, on top having to send your valuable document like passport (including yours and kids) cause lot of anxiety and has potential of misplacing originals. What a nightmare!! It is so true when they say common sense is not common. For Indian govt. babus this is so true.

All this makes me realize that applying for OCI for kids makes no sense. Just get the visa until they are 16, and then apply for OCI. Visa is valid for 10 years and you can take old passport with visa and new passport. OCI is supposed to be for life but for kids under 16 you basically reapply every 5 years.

We should write to PMO office as a start. Here is the url - http://pmindia.gov.in/en/interact-with-honble-pm/

not required to apply reissue OCI when minor is having renewal every 5 years anymore, since no more U-visa on passport, but kidds are changing their look pretty much after 5 years, so the custom may ask you to apply asap.

[Des Pardes]

For all having to convert PIO to OCI - I feel your pain. I totally agree with the sentiments here. And, just to tell you the bad news, it does not get easier after you get the OCI. Because for a child under 16, you have to apply for OCI match up with new passport every time your child gets a new passport, which is every 5 years. And believe it or not, you have to send ALL the documents (even originals such as your passports and OCI cards), get them notarized, self attested and all the shitty things AGAIN !! So don't think once you get the OCI you are off the hook, because you will have to go through the pain again after 5 years. I am telling you this because I know from personal experience having just applied for matchup for my two sons.

This is one messed up process, I can tell you. Not only does it involve a ton of paperwork and getting things notarized, on top having to send your valuable document like passport (including yours and kids) cause lot of anxiety and has potential of misplacing originals. What a nightmare!! It is so true when they say common sense is not common. For Indian govt. babus this is so true.

All this makes me realize that applying for OCI for kids makes no sense. Just get the visa until they are 16, and then apply for OCI. Visa is valid for 10 years and you can take old passport with visa and new passport. OCI is supposed to be for life but for kids under 16 you basically reapply every 5 years.

We should write to PMO office as a start. Here is the url - http://pmindia.gov.in/en/interact-with-honble-pm/

Thanks. I think I will hold off conversion for my 16 year old. His passport expires in March 2019 and PIO card expires in May 2019. I can apply for new passport for him in October 2018. By then he will also be 18+

My only worry now is whether he can use the PIO card past June 2016.

As for writing to PMO, may be someone with better writing skills and lot of knowledge in requirements for all sorts of documents should start a campaign on change.org

[anumoorthy]

Signed Photo

Hello to all,
Thank you for all the valuable details. I am planning to convert my 10 year old son's PIO to OCI. I do not understand what they mean by upload 2 photos. 2nd photo should be signed by the child. So, do I go to CVS get a 2x2 photo in a white background. Then have the kid sign on that photo, take another picture of this signed photo using my cell phone and upload that as the 2nd photo?
Also, should the kid sign on the entire photo or on the bottom or left to right (across).
Since we are planning to go to India in July, I don't want to any mess up with this process.

Please help.
Thanking you,
Anu

[sunrag1]

Hello to all,
Thank you for all the valuable details. I am planning to convert my 10 year old son's PIO to OCI. I do not understand what they mean by upload 2 photos. 2nd photo should be signed by the child. So, do I go to CVS get a 2x2 photo in a white background. Then have the kid sign on that photo, take another picture of this signed photo using my cell phone and upload that as the 2nd photo?
Also, should the kid sign on the entire photo or on the bottom or left to right (across).
Since we are planning to go to India in July, I don't want to any mess up with this process.

Please help.
Thanking you,
Anu

With so many complications with conversion and people losing original passports, I prefer to apply for VISA and/or get VISA on arrival (if travel is <30 days).

[radhamadhuri]

Hello to all,
Thank you for all the valuable details. I am planning to convert my 10 year old son's PIO to OCI. I do not understand what they mean by upload 2 photos. 2nd photo should be signed by the child. So, do I go to CVS get a 2x2 photo in a white background. Then have the kid sign on that photo, take another picture of this signed photo using my cell phone and upload that as the 2nd photo?
Also, should the kid sign on the entire photo or on the bottom or left to right (across).
Since we are planning to go to India in July, I don't want to any mess up with this process.

Please help.
Thanking you,
Anu

1. I do not understand what they mean by upload 2 photos. ==> Where did they say upload 2 photos? Looks like you are not reading correct document (Quick Answer: They said 2 photos. One photo to paste to application. second one to send it with application. Caveat: I walk-in to San Francisco last week for OCI..they said second photo is NOT necessary. Not sure about other cities.)
2. 2nd photo should be signed by the child. ==> Where did they say sign the 2nd photo? Looks like you are not reading correct document (Quick Answer: Upload the photo and signature as part of OCI application)
3. So, do I go to CVS get a 2x2 photo in a white background. ==> Yes. What I did was I took photo at home for my 6 month old baby and took print out in CVS. It is same cost $12.99 for 2 photos (They take pic or you take pic at home). Couple of years back print out was 39 cents.

Oh my god..I can't answer all your questions...All I can say is that you did NOT read the OCI process document correctly or reading old document some where...

FYI: I applied for OCI a week back - Walk-in to SF. It was so simple since I read and prepared well for one week . ...Yes, it is laborious / confusion but if you read carefully the entire process is pretty simple...

[radhamadhuri]

With so many complications with conversion and people losing original passports, I prefer to apply for VISA and/or get VISA on arrival (if travel is <30 days).

1. I read Visa document process. It is as laborious as OCI. No difference except that no need of sending original docs
2. If the kid is minor (<18 years) then they give 5 Years visa only. For elders they give 10 years visa
3. Visa cost is $100
4. On-arrival visa cost is $60
5. New OCI: $290
5. Renewel of OCI: $25

Now you do the math from cost point of view....

[sunrag1]

1. I read Visa document process. It is as laborious as OCI. No difference except that no need of sending original docs
2. If the kid is minor (<18 years) then they give 5 Years visa only. For elders they give 10 years visa
3. Visa cost is $100
4. On-arrival visa cost is $60
5. New OCI: $290
5. Renewel of OCI: $25

Now you do the math from cost point of view....

With the same logic, most of us here, took PIO earlier. Now we have new conversion process. What is the guarantee this process remains the same for next year also (after getting OCI). So considering that VISA is better (if travel is for vacation only) for minors considering we dont need to send parents original docs.