OCI application: Proof of Indian origin issues; Indian bureaucracy at work

[vonugrad]

My mother applied for OCI, but she does not have her Indian passport. This was turned in 4 decades ago when she became a US citizen.

CKGS had suggested that her US naturalization certificate (which lists her previous nationality as Indian) along with school certificates would be sufficient. Turns out this is not enough for the consulate. They want a copy of her Indian passport (again, this was turned in several decades ago and she does not have a copy) or a copy of her parents Indian passports (her parents died 20 years ago and she has no idea where those passports might be).

This is ridiculous. Not only does her US naturalization certificate list her prior nationality as Indian, she has certificates from 3 different schools in India, along with a wedding certificate. Her son (me) has a PIO card, but she can't get an OCI card?

Any suggestions on how to proceed? We have $400 invested in this application (OCI application, renunciation application, shipping fees) and I am afraid she is going to be rejected because some bureaucrats cannot apply common sense.

[skynice]

Go in person

I hear you. My recommendation will be to make an appointment and go to the consulate office in person to sort this out.

[ravifremont]

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I hear you. My recommendation will be to make an appointment and go to the consulate office in person to sort this out.

In San Francisco, one is not allowed to go to Consulate directly.

Must work through CKGS. It is clearly mentioned on the Consulate web site. SF Consulate will refuse to even speak to you.

But maybe it is different for other Consulate locations...

[vonugrad]

If it makes a difference, this application is with the NY Consulate.

[ravifremont]

If it makes a difference, this application is with the NY Consulate.

Each Consulate has its own procedures. For some reason, there is no uniformity (which is another problem). For example, the SF Consulate will not allow application for OCI + Renunciation concurrently -- must apply Renunciation first. But apparently your NY Consulate allows this.

I am in a similar situation as you, having been naturalized decades ago and without Indian passport. I am assuming your online NY application is similar to SF. When I applied online at CKGS SF , it separates applicants into different categories: Those naturalized after 2000 with Indian Passport, Those naturalized before 2000 (or whatever date it was) and who do NOT have Indian passport, etc.

The online application also makes me attach notarized statements attesting that I do not have U.S. passport and that it was surrendered upon Naturalization.

My current application status for Renunciation is "Processing at Consulate"... I hope I do not get a message like you from Consulate demanding Indian passport.

Don't know how in the world bureaucrats would expect anyone to have copy of 30 year old passport??.. And what exactly is the concern? The passport has long since expired. Do they think you are using a 30 year old Passport to travel? It makes no sense...

Also, what is the process now that the Consulate has asked for your Indian Passport? Are you communicating with Consulate by email directly? Or are all email messages sent to CKGS and passed on to Consulate?

[vonugrad]

The online application also makes me attach notarized statements attesting that I do not have U.S. passport and that it was surrendered upon Naturalization.

Right, we submitted the renunciation application with an affidavit of loss stating we no longer have the passport.

My current application status for Renunciation is "Processing at Consulate"... I hope I do not get a message like you from Consulate demanding Indian passport.

Yeah, that was ridiculous. If we had the passport we would have submitted it! That was the entire point of the affidavit of loss. And surely they know that the process of naturalization in the US (at least a few decades ago) required surrender of foreign passport.

Don't know how in the world bureaucrats would expect anyone to have copy of 30 year old passport??

Indeed. And why can't Indian government check their records and find the record of the passport being issued? And if the government does not have the record, how can they expect individuals to keep these expired documents for decades?

Also, what is the process now that the Consulate has asked for your Indian Passport? Are you communicating with Consulate by email directly? Or are all email messages sent to CKGS and passed on to Consulate?

I have been going through CKGS. But my last couple of emails to CKGS NY have not received any response, so I have no idea if they are passing my messages on to the Consulate, and the online status just shows on hold pending documents. This is a very frustrating process. I feel like I paid $400 for high blood pressure. If I wanted stress and aggravation, I could have purchased it far more cheaply!

[ravifremont]

According to the CKGS document checklist, a birth certificate should be acceptable in lieu of passport. If she does not have it, it should just be a matter of requesting the Indian municipality to produce a official birth record document.

After birth, the hospital notifies the city corporation office, who are then supposed to enter an official birth record. The corporation told me their birth records were lost/destroyed. So I have to make a court request asking the court to instruct the corporation to issue a birth certificate. The process takes 3 months. I have already submitted a court request, just in case the Consulate demands my birth certificate... Bottom line: Producing the birth certificate sounds like much less hassle than tracking down old passports.


It also appears that land ownership certificate must be submitted along with educational certificate (no idea why), which is likely why her educational certificates alone were not sufficient.

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Proof of Indian Origin (for Govt.)
Copy of first three and last two pages of the last Indian Passport held.

In case of non-availability of Indian passport the decision to accept the mentioned documents as proof of Indian Citizenship will be made by the Embassy/Consular Officer and will be FINAL in such cases.

(if Indian Passport is not available, any One of the below documents)

Birth Certificate OR
Certificate of Indian origin from First Class Magistrate / District Magistrate OR
Ancestral Nativity Certificate from Indian Official / Magistrate OR
Educational certificate issued by an institution of India AND Land ownership certificate.

[vonugrad]

According to the CKGS document checklist, a birth certificate should be acceptable in lieu of passport. If she does not have it, it should just be a matter of requesting the Indian municipality to produce a official birth record document.

Do you know if this can be requested online?

[immihelp]

Do you know if this can be requested online?

No. It would be a very big long painful process in person trying to get it, even if possible.

[vonugrad]

At this point, we have submitted birth certificate, school certificates, parents' birth certificates, and parents' death certificates. And this is not sufficient proof of Indian origin for the consulate. Not even with my elderly mother going there in person with the original documents was sufficient.

In lieu of Indian passport or parents Indian passports (parents are long since dead), neither of which we have, they want a domicile certificate. If all this documentation is not sufficient for the consulate, how on earth are we going to prove domicile from 50 years ago in order to get a domicile certificate?

[ravifremont]

At this point, we have submitted birth certificate, school certificates, parents' birth certificates, and parents' death certificates. And this is not sufficient proof of Indian origin for the consulate. Not even with my elderly mother going there in person with the original documents was sufficient.

In lieu of Indian passport or parents Indian passports (parents are long since dead), neither of which we have, they want a domicile certificate. If all this documentation is not sufficient for the consulate, how on earth are we going to prove domicile from 50 years ago in order to get a domicile certificate?

How were you able to obtain the birth certificate? That certificate alone should be sufficient to prove origin according to the CKGS instructions, which I presume comes directly from the Consulate. I am in similar situation (no Indian passport, no birth or educational certificate) and the SF Consulate has approved my "Renunciation Only" application. My next step is to apply for OCI. For some reason, the SF Consulate does not allow OCI and Renunciation application together.

In case of non-availability of Indian passport the decision to accept the mentioned documents as proof of Indian Citizenship will be made by the Embassy/Consular Officer and will be FINAL in such cases.

(if Indian Passport is not available, any One of the below documents)

Birth Certificate OR
Certificate of Indian origin from First Class Magistrate / District Magistrate OR
Ancestral Nativity Certificate from Indian Official / Magistrate OR
Educational certificate issued by an institution of India AND Land ownership certificate.

[vonugrad]

How were you able to obtain the birth certificate?

We found it in my mother's records. Problem is it is a birth certificate issued by a religious institution, not the Indian government. She was born in the 1940's in a rural part of India where local government did not issue birth certificates.